When and why should I use enaml?

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When and why should I use enaml?

Adam Hughes
Hi everyone,

I've been playing with the new release and I'm intrigued by enaml.  From the documentation, this is the only context I have for its inception:

  • Integrate well with Traits and Chaco .
  • Help separate the presentation and content (i.e., MVC)
  • Allow a single script to work across multiple widget toolkits when using the default interfaces.
  • Be extensible and allow adaptation and addition of the base widgets with little effort.

Of these four bullets, the third and fourth aren't quite clear to me.  Can anyone elaborate on these a bit?

I haven't been able to find any videos of enaml either, except an archived EPD webinar that I don't have access to.  What I don't understand quite clearly is why did you make enaml?  Or more clearly, when does enaml surpass traitsUI?  Should I begin using enaml in every program I write?  Or are there certain cases where it's better to just stick to the traditional traitsui methodology?  I'm sure there are many possibilities with enaml, but it also requires getting familiar with an entirely new syntax and methodology and it feels like an investment.  I need to understand the programs better before making the investment, but trust that it would be worthwhile merely because you guys release awesome software.  Can anyone chime in with their experiences and insights?

Thanks



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Re: When and why should I use enaml?

Adam Hughes
PS

This might be really obtuse of me but I don't get how to run a .enaml code that has the traits object already builtin?  How to I execute it if its not a .py file?  I use ubuntu 32bit 10.04.

On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Adam Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi everyone,

I've been playing with the new release and I'm intrigued by enaml.  From the documentation, this is the only context I have for its inception:

  • Integrate well with Traits and Chaco .
  • Help separate the presentation and content (i.e., MVC)
  • Allow a single script to work across multiple widget toolkits when using the default interfaces.
  • Be extensible and allow adaptation and addition of the base widgets with little effort.

Of these four bullets, the third and fourth aren't quite clear to me.  Can anyone elaborate on these a bit?

I haven't been able to find any videos of enaml either, except an archived EPD webinar that I don't have access to.  What I don't understand quite clearly is why did you make enaml?  Or more clearly, when does enaml surpass traitsUI?  Should I begin using enaml in every program I write?  Or are there certain cases where it's better to just stick to the traditional traitsui methodology?  I'm sure there are many possibilities with enaml, but it also requires getting familiar with an entirely new syntax and methodology and it feels like an investment.  I need to understand the programs better before making the investment, but trust that it would be worthwhile merely because you guys release awesome software.  Can anyone chime in with their experiences and insights?

Thanks




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Re: When and why should I use enaml?

Jaidev Deshpande
In reply to this post by Adam Hughes
Hi,

On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 1:27 AM, Adam Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I've been playing with the new release and I'm intrigued by enaml.  From the
> documentation, this is the only context I have for its inception:
>
> Integrate well with Traits and Chaco .
> Help separate the presentation and content (i.e., MVC)
> Allow a single script to work across multiple widget toolkits when using the
> default interfaces.
> Be extensible and allow adaptation and addition of the base widgets with
> little effort.
>
> Of these four bullets, the third and fourth aren't quite clear to me.  Can
> anyone elaborate on these a bit?
>
> I haven't been able to find any videos of enaml either, except an archived
> EPD webinar that I don't have access to.  What I don't understand quite
> clearly is why did you make enaml?  Or more clearly, when does enaml surpass
> traitsUI?  Should I begin using enaml in every program I write?  Or are
> there certain cases where it's better to just stick to the traditional
> traitsui methodology?  I'm sure there are many possibilities with enaml, but
> it also requires getting familiar with an entirely new syntax and
> methodology and it feels like an investment.  I need to understand the
> programs better before making the investment, but trust that it would be
> worthwhile merely because you guys release awesome software.  Can anyone
> chime in with their experiences and insights?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Enthought-Dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.enthought.com/mailman/listinfo/enthought-dev
>

I can throw in a little bit about the third bullet. If you refer to
the latest docs you'll see that there are a lot of widgets that can be
used in an enaml view, and they all can be declared in the same
script. Consider the following script:

enamldef View(MainWindow):
    attr foo
    Container:
        Form:
            Label:
                text = 'Name'
            Field:
                value := foo.name
        PushButton:
            id: ok
            text << "OK"
            clicked::
                foo.run()

Here we have made a container out of a form and a button widget. Many
more can be added to the same script.
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Re: When and why should I use enaml?

Jaidev Deshpande
In reply to this post by Adam Hughes
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 1:44 AM, Adam Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> PS
>
> This might be really obtuse of me but I don't get how to run a .enaml code
> that has the traits object already builtin?  How to I execute it if its not
> a .py file?  I use ubuntu 32bit 10.04.
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Adam Hughes <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I've been playing with the new release and I'm intrigued by enaml.  From
>> the documentation, this is the only context I have for its inception:
>>
>> Integrate well with Traits and Chaco .
>> Help separate the presentation and content (i.e., MVC)
>> Allow a single script to work across multiple widget toolkits when using
>> the default interfaces.
>> Be extensible and allow adaptation and addition of the base widgets with
>> little effort.
>>
>> Of these four bullets, the third and fourth aren't quite clear to me.  Can
>> anyone elaborate on these a bit?
>>
>> I haven't been able to find any videos of enaml either, except an archived
>> EPD webinar that I don't have access to.  What I don't understand quite
>> clearly is why did you make enaml?  Or more clearly, when does enaml surpass
>> traitsUI?  Should I begin using enaml in every program I write?  Or are
>> there certain cases where it's better to just stick to the traditional
>> traitsui methodology?  I'm sure there are many possibilities with enaml, but
>> it also requires getting familiar with an entirely new syntax and
>> methodology and it feels like an investment.  I need to understand the
>> programs better before making the investment, but trust that it would be
>> worthwhile merely because you guys release awesome software.  Can anyone
>> chime in with their experiences and insights?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Enthought-Dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.enthought.com/mailman/listinfo/enthought-dev
>

I'm not entirely sure if this will work, but try running
$ enaml-run filename.enaml

Let me know if this works.

Thanks
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Re: When and why should I use enaml?

John Wiggins
In reply to this post by Adam Hughes
Hi Adam,

Some answers:

- Working with multiple toolkits in Enaml works just as it does in
TraitsUI (with ETS_TOOLKIT and friends). Additionally, you can use a
context manager to show some UI in whatever toolkit you want. Ex:
import enaml
...
with enaml.qt_toolkit():
    # do something which causes a window or dialog to appear

- Adding a new widget to Enaml is pretty easy. You create an abstract
interface for the widget, a shell object class which is the interface
for the enaml code, and a toolkit specific class which implements the
abstract interface. See the code in enaml.components and
enaml.backends for concrete examples. I've written a few myself and
it's a fairly quick and painless process.

- I can't say for sure, but the video from Chris Colbert's Enaml talk
at PyGotham might be posted soon. The conference was just last
weekend, so be patient.

- One of Enaml's killer features, its constraints based layout engine,
makes creating dynamic UI layouts easy. Many layouts which are painful
or impossible in TraitsUI are easy in Enaml.

Hope that answers some of you questions.

-- John

On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 2:57 PM, Adam Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I've been playing with the new release and I'm intrigued by enaml.  From the
> documentation, this is the only context I have for its inception:
>
> Integrate well with Traits and Chaco .
> Help separate the presentation and content (i.e., MVC)
> Allow a single script to work across multiple widget toolkits when using the
> default interfaces.
> Be extensible and allow adaptation and addition of the base widgets with
> little effort.
>
> Of these four bullets, the third and fourth aren't quite clear to me.  Can
> anyone elaborate on these a bit?
>
> I haven't been able to find any videos of enaml either, except an archived
> EPD webinar that I don't have access to.  What I don't understand quite
> clearly is why did you make enaml?  Or more clearly, when does enaml surpass
> traitsUI?  Should I begin using enaml in every program I write?  Or are
> there certain cases where it's better to just stick to the traditional
> traitsui methodology?  I'm sure there are many possibilities with enaml, but
> it also requires getting familiar with an entirely new syntax and
> methodology and it feels like an investment.  I need to understand the
> programs better before making the investment, but trust that it would be
> worthwhile merely because you guys release awesome software.  Can anyone
> chime in with their experiences and insights?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Enthought-Dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.enthought.com/mailman/listinfo/enthought-dev
>
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Re: When and why should I use enaml?

Adam Hughes
In reply to this post by Jaidev Deshpande
Thanks for the input guys.  I appreciate it.  I was not able to get the enaml files working using that command.

On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Jaidev Deshpande <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 1:44 AM, Adam Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> PS
>
> This might be really obtuse of me but I don't get how to run a .enaml code
> that has the traits object already builtin?  How to I execute it if its not
> a .py file?  I use ubuntu 32bit 10.04.
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Adam Hughes <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I've been playing with the new release and I'm intrigued by enaml.  From
>> the documentation, this is the only context I have for its inception:
>>
>> Integrate well with Traits and Chaco .
>> Help separate the presentation and content (i.e., MVC)
>> Allow a single script to work across multiple widget toolkits when using
>> the default interfaces.
>> Be extensible and allow adaptation and addition of the base widgets with
>> little effort.
>>
>> Of these four bullets, the third and fourth aren't quite clear to me.  Can
>> anyone elaborate on these a bit?
>>
>> I haven't been able to find any videos of enaml either, except an archived
>> EPD webinar that I don't have access to.  What I don't understand quite
>> clearly is why did you make enaml?  Or more clearly, when does enaml surpass
>> traitsUI?  Should I begin using enaml in every program I write?  Or are
>> there certain cases where it's better to just stick to the traditional
>> traitsui methodology?  I'm sure there are many possibilities with enaml, but
>> it also requires getting familiar with an entirely new syntax and
>> methodology and it feels like an investment.  I need to understand the
>> programs better before making the investment, but trust that it would be
>> worthwhile merely because you guys release awesome software.  Can anyone
>> chime in with their experiences and insights?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Enthought-Dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.enthought.com/mailman/listinfo/enthought-dev
>

I'm not entirely sure if this will work, but try running
$ enaml-run filename.enaml

Let me know if this works.

Thanks
_______________________________________________
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Re: When and why should I use enaml?

Adam Hughes
I was wondering if it is clear now how enaml resolves this thread from a while back:

https://mail.enthought.com/pipermail/enthought-dev/2012-April/030856.html

On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 6:42 PM, Adam Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks for the input guys.  I appreciate it.  I was not able to get the enaml files working using that command.


On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Jaidev Deshpande <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 1:44 AM, Adam Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> PS
>
> This might be really obtuse of me but I don't get how to run a .enaml code
> that has the traits object already builtin?  How to I execute it if its not
> a .py file?  I use ubuntu 32bit 10.04.
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Adam Hughes <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I've been playing with the new release and I'm intrigued by enaml.  From
>> the documentation, this is the only context I have for its inception:
>>
>> Integrate well with Traits and Chaco .
>> Help separate the presentation and content (i.e., MVC)
>> Allow a single script to work across multiple widget toolkits when using
>> the default interfaces.
>> Be extensible and allow adaptation and addition of the base widgets with
>> little effort.
>>
>> Of these four bullets, the third and fourth aren't quite clear to me.  Can
>> anyone elaborate on these a bit?
>>
>> I haven't been able to find any videos of enaml either, except an archived
>> EPD webinar that I don't have access to.  What I don't understand quite
>> clearly is why did you make enaml?  Or more clearly, when does enaml surpass
>> traitsUI?  Should I begin using enaml in every program I write?  Or are
>> there certain cases where it's better to just stick to the traditional
>> traitsui methodology?  I'm sure there are many possibilities with enaml, but
>> it also requires getting familiar with an entirely new syntax and
>> methodology and it feels like an investment.  I need to understand the
>> programs better before making the investment, but trust that it would be
>> worthwhile merely because you guys release awesome software.  Can anyone
>> chime in with their experiences and insights?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Enthought-Dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.enthought.com/mailman/listinfo/enthought-dev
>

I'm not entirely sure if this will work, but try running
$ enaml-run filename.enaml

Let me know if this works.

Thanks
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://mail.enthought.com/mailman/listinfo/enthought-dev



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Re: When and why should I use enaml?

Robert Kern
In reply to this post by Adam Hughes
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:42 PM, Adam Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thanks for the input guys.  I appreciate it.  I was not able to get the
> enaml files working using that command.

"was not" still?

--
Robert Kern
Enthought
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Re: When and why should I use enaml?

Chris Colbert
In reply to this post by Adam Hughes
Enaml provides its own constraints base layout manager which is actually more powerful than the builtin layout managers provided by the toolkits. You can do just about anything you can imagine with it. As an example of something not possible with traditional layout managers, see this script which I just added last night:

Controlling group sizes is no problem for Enaml. 

If you can't see how to do what you like by looking at the examples, please post some simple code and we'll help you out.

Cheers,

Chris
 

On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 12:06 AM, Adam Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:
I was wondering if it is clear now how enaml resolves this thread from a while back:

https://mail.enthought.com/pipermail/enthought-dev/2012-April/030856.html


On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 6:42 PM, Adam Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks for the input guys.  I appreciate it.  I was not able to get the enaml files working using that command.


On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Jaidev Deshpande <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 1:44 AM, Adam Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> PS
>
> This might be really obtuse of me but I don't get how to run a .enaml code
> that has the traits object already builtin?  How to I execute it if its not
> a .py file?  I use ubuntu 32bit 10.04.
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Adam Hughes <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I've been playing with the new release and I'm intrigued by enaml.  From
>> the documentation, this is the only context I have for its inception:
>>
>> Integrate well with Traits and Chaco .
>> Help separate the presentation and content (i.e., MVC)
>> Allow a single script to work across multiple widget toolkits when using
>> the default interfaces.
>> Be extensible and allow adaptation and addition of the base widgets with
>> little effort.
>>
>> Of these four bullets, the third and fourth aren't quite clear to me.  Can
>> anyone elaborate on these a bit?
>>
>> I haven't been able to find any videos of enaml either, except an archived
>> EPD webinar that I don't have access to.  What I don't understand quite
>> clearly is why did you make enaml?  Or more clearly, when does enaml surpass
>> traitsUI?  Should I begin using enaml in every program I write?  Or are
>> there certain cases where it's better to just stick to the traditional
>> traitsui methodology?  I'm sure there are many possibilities with enaml, but
>> it also requires getting familiar with an entirely new syntax and
>> methodology and it feels like an investment.  I need to understand the
>> programs better before making the investment, but trust that it would be
>> worthwhile merely because you guys release awesome software.  Can anyone
>> chime in with their experiences and insights?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Enthought-Dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://mail.enthought.com/mailman/listinfo/enthought-dev
>

I'm not entirely sure if this will work, but try running
$ enaml-run filename.enaml

Let me know if this works.

Thanks
_______________________________________________
Enthought-Dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://mail.enthought.com/mailman/listinfo/enthought-dev



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Re: When and why should I use enaml?

Adam Hughes
In reply to this post by Robert Kern
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 5:44 AM, Robert Kern <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:42 PM, Adam Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thanks for the input guys.  I appreciate it.  I was not able to get the
> enaml files working using that command.

"was not" still?

Ya still confused.  If I took an example where the python code was written directly into the .enaml file, what is the terminal command to run the script?  For example, the progress_bar.enaml script... how would I run this through the terminal since it's not a .py file?

(Sorry, browser is being odd.  Hyperlink tot he prgress_bar example:

http://docs.enthought.com/enaml/instructional/tut_more_widgets.html)
 

--
Robert Kern
Enthought
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Re: When and why should I use enaml?

Robert Kern
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Adam Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 5:44 AM, Robert Kern <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:42 PM, Adam Hughes <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > Thanks for the input guys.  I appreciate it.  I was not able to get the
>> > enaml files working using that command.
>>
>> "was not" still?
>
>
> Ya still confused.  If I took an example where the python code was written
> directly into the .enaml file, what is the terminal command to run the
> script?  For example, the progress_bar.enaml script... how would I run this
> through the terminal since it's not a .py file?
>
> (Sorry, browser is being odd.  Hyperlink tot he prgress_bar example:
>
> http://docs.enthought.com/enaml/instructional/tut_more_widgets.html)

$ enaml-run progress_bar.enaml

--
Robert Kern
Enthought
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Re: When and why should I use enaml?

Adam Hughes
Thanks.  This is what I had tried originally, with and without the '$' symbol. 

glue@glue-desktop:~/Desktop$ enaml-run progress_bar.enaml
enaml-run: command not found
glue@glue-desktop:~/Desktop$ $ enaml-run progress_bar.enaml
$: command not found

Do I need to modify my path to include the enaml-run?  If so, does anyone know what directory it should be in?  I'm using ubuntu 10.04

Sorry if this is old news that I missed the first time through.

On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Robert Kern <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Adam Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 5:44 AM, Robert Kern <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:42 PM, Adam Hughes <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > Thanks for the input guys.  I appreciate it.  I was not able to get the
>> > enaml files working using that command.
>>
>> "was not" still?
>
>
> Ya still confused.  If I took an example where the python code was written
> directly into the .enaml file, what is the terminal command to run the
> script?  For example, the progress_bar.enaml script... how would I run this
> through the terminal since it's not a .py file?
>
> (Sorry, browser is being odd.  Hyperlink tot he prgress_bar example:
>
> http://docs.enthought.com/enaml/instructional/tut_more_widgets.html)

$ enaml-run progress_bar.enaml

--
Robert Kern
Enthought
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Re: When and why should I use enaml?

Robert Kern
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Adam Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks.  This is what I had tried originally, with and without the '$'
> symbol.
>
> glue@glue-desktop:~/Desktop$ enaml-run progress_bar.enaml
> enaml-run: command not found
> glue@glue-desktop:~/Desktop$ $ enaml-run progress_bar.enaml
> $: command not found
>
> Do I need to modify my path to include the enaml-run?  If so, does anyone
> know what directory it should be in?  I'm using ubuntu 10.04

The $ is just a representation of the shell prompt; a "screenshot" of
my terminal, if you will. I mean you to type in the things after it,
not to type the $.

The enaml-run script is installed when you build and install enaml
through its setup.py distutils script, like most other Python
packages.

--
Robert Kern
Enthought
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Re: When and why should I use enaml?

Adam Hughes
I installed the EPD 7.3 distribution directly.  This should also install the enaml-run script, right?

On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 11:17 AM, Robert Kern <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Adam Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thanks.  This is what I had tried originally, with and without the '$'
> symbol.
>
> glue@glue-desktop:~/Desktop$ enaml-run progress_bar.enaml
> enaml-run: command not found
> glue@glue-desktop:~/Desktop$ $ enaml-run progress_bar.enaml
> $: command not found
>
> Do I need to modify my path to include the enaml-run?  If so, does anyone
> know what directory it should be in?  I'm using ubuntu 10.04

The $ is just a representation of the shell prompt; a "screenshot" of
my terminal, if you will. I mean you to type in the things after it,
not to type the $.

The enaml-run script is installed when you build and install enaml
through its setup.py distutils script, like most other Python
packages.

--
Robert Kern
Enthought
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Re: When and why should I use enaml?

Robert Kern
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 4:19 PM, Adam Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I installed the EPD 7.3 distribution directly.  This should also install the
> enaml-run script, right?

It should. I just installed epd-7.3-1-rh5-x86_64.sh and it worked.
Your $PATH is set up correctly for EPD? Is the enaml-run script in
EPD's bin/ directory? You can try reinstalling the enaml egg using
enpkg.

--
Robert Kern
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Re: When and why should I use enaml?

Adam Hughes
Ok I figured it out.  The enaml-run script was correctly placed in the directory but my path was only setup to run "python" out of the EPD bin directory.  Or what I should say is that I had an alias pointing to it rather than putting the bin directory into my path.  I'm kind of a noob but finally understand this now.  I use aliases to keep old versions of python accessible.  For completeness, here is the final modification in my path that will allow for everything to work:

# Export EPD7.3/bin into path
PATH="/usr/local/EPD7.3/bin:${PATH}"
export PATH

# python alias (not standard python has alias 'python2'
alias python2='/usr/bin/python'

Thanks for your help robert.


On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Robert Kern <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 4:19 PM, Adam Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I installed the EPD 7.3 distribution directly.  This should also install the
> enaml-run script, right?

It should. I just installed epd-7.3-1-rh5-x86_64.sh and it worked.
Your $PATH is set up correctly for EPD? Is the enaml-run script in
EPD's bin/ directory? You can try reinstalling the enaml egg using
enpkg.

--
Robert Kern
Enthought
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